Transcript
Into America
Street Disciples: We Gon’ Be Alright
Trymaine Lee: Heads up. This episode contains profanity.
It’s been nearly 40 years since the police killing of Michael Stewart in New York City and nearly a decade since another cop killed Michael Brown, Jr. in Ferguson. And just three years since George Floyd was murdered by police in Minneapolis. Their names, these moments have been seared into our collective memories. They’ve given us a before and an after. The before feels long gone, but the after, we’re still living it.
Archival recording: Don’t shoot. Don’t shoot. Don’t shoot. No trusting. Police. No trusting. Police. No trusting. Police.
Lee: There’s a new rhythm, a new sound, new lyrics to capture the anger in our fists and the hope in our open palms, reaching for something more. There are new songs to help us calibrate the world or escape it. And no genre has given us that in these first tumultuous decades of the 21st century, more than hip hop.
Alright by Kendrick Lamar: All’s my life, I has to fight, nigga. All my life I has —
Lee: And perhaps no artist has captured the racial and political tension or the complexity of this moment more than Kendrick Lamar, an artist defining himself on his own terms but a clear descendant of Rakim, KRS, Public Enemy, and N.W.A., with some PAC and a lot of Nas.
In the fallout from the killings of Michael Brown and George Floyd, it was Kendrick’s music that embodied the fury and fealty to black people and their liberation in the widest, most modern context.
DNA by Kendrick Lamar: I got power, poison, pain and joy inside my DNA. I got hustle though, ambition flow inside my DNA.
Lee: Kendrick Lamar, a son of Compton, California, born in 1987, a year before N.W.A. Released “Straight Outta Compton,” came of age with West Coast royalty in his musical DNA. Kendrick told hip hop station, WGCI, that when he was just seven years old, his dad put him on his shoulders and took him to see Pac and Dre film the video for “California Love.”
Kendrick Lamar: Yeah, man, I was in Compton. They were shooting the first version of it. And what happened was they stopped and just, you know, right in front of the middle of the street and just went to mingle with the people. My pops had seen them, came back down the house for five minutes.
Lee: As a teenager, Kendrick, who went by KDOT, started putting out mixtapes. And it was clear, this new kid was something different. Here he is meditating on matters of spirituality in the 2009 song, “Faith” from his mixtape, “C4.”
Faith by Kendrick Lamar: I open my Bible in search to be a better Christian and this from a person that never believed in religion. But shit, my life is so fucked up, man, I can’t help but give in. I’m giving testimonies to strangers I never met, hopped to the pulpit —
Lee: Then three years later, he released his second studio album and his first classic, the Grammy nominated, “good kid, m.A.A.d city,” a serious and somber biographical rumination on coming of age in a city full of traps, gangs, killer cops, and peer pressure, and dangerous dalliances.
Sherane a.k.a. Master Splinter’s Daughter by Kendrick Lamar: The summer had passed and now I’m liking her, conversation we having probably enticing her, who could imagine, maybe my actions would end up wifing her, love or lust, regardless we’ll fuck ’cause the trife in us.
It’s deep-rooted, the music of being young and dumb. Its never muted, in fact it’s much louder where I’m from. We know a lot ’bout each other, her mother was a crack addict, she live with her granny and her younger two brothers.
Lee: Since “good kid, m.A.A.d. city’s” debut in 2012, the album has spent 538 weeks on Billboard’s Top 200. That’s every single week for more than 10 years. If Good Kid was his emergence as one of the new kings of hip hop, it was his 2015 “To Pimp a Butterfly” that cemented his reign.
The album’s cover features a group of shirtless, celebratory black men holding wads of cash with Kendrick in the middle, holding a small child. And at their feet, a white judge with his eyes X’ed out. And in the background, the White House. The album cover is just a prelude to a tectonic project that would shift the ground beneath our feet, a recitation on black life in America and the fight to be seen and heard as whole today.
And of the many gems on the album, it was “We Gon be Alright,” a proclamation as much a promise that has captured the energy and enthusiasm of a new crop of freedom seekers.
Alright, Kendrick Lamar: And we hate po-po, Wanna kill us dead in the street for sure. Nigga, I’m at the preacher’s door, my knees gettin’ weak and my gun might blow, but we gon’ be alright. Nigga, we gon’ be alright. Nigga, we gon’ be alright. We gon’ be alright. Do you hear me, do you feel me? We gon’ be alright.
Lee: The song has made umpteen lists, including President Obama’s annual list of favorite songs. But more so, it’s become a rallying cry like when police arrested a 14-year-old during a 2015 Black Lives Matter Conference in Cleveland.
Archival recording: We gon’ be alright, we gon’ be alright, we gon’ be alright, we gon’ be alright.
Lee: Or from a protest outside of LAPD headquarters in 2016.
Archival recording: We gon’ be alright, hey, we gon’ be alright, hey, we gon’ be alright.
Lee: In 2017, Kendrick Lamar added another masterpiece to the canyon, “Damn.” “Damn.” is an exhibition for one of the genre’s dopest lyricists whose sharp rhymes are matched by an overall concept that seamlessly braids humor and heartache, ambition and loss.
Love. by Kendrick Lamar: If I didn’t ride blade on curb, would you still (love me)? If I made up my mind at work, would you still (love me)? Keep it a hundred, I’d rather you trust me than to (love me). Keep it a whole one hund’, don’t got you I got nothin’. Give me a run for my money.
Lee: “Damn” shattered boundaries and took Kendrick Lamar from Compton to another stratosphere. In 2018, “Damn.” took home five Grammys, including Best Rap album.
Archival recording: The citation for the Pulitzer Prize in Music.
Lee: And became the first rap album to win a Pulitzer Prize.
Archival recording: “Damn.” by Kendrick Lamar. A virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity that offers affecting vignettes, capturing the complexity of modern African-American life. Congratulations, Kendrick Lamar.
Lee: What Kendrick Lamar has meant for the Trayvon, the Mike Brown, the George Floyd generation is what a rare few street disciples before him have meant for earlier hip hop heads. Here is Nas showing respect to Kendrick on last year’s “King’s Disease III” album, on his song “First Time,” which is both nostalgic and hopeful.
First Time by Nas: Since when did rap leave me so suspended in air. Since Kendrick entered the atmosphere, ’09, I was there.
On La Cienega, my nigga from LA said there’s a nigga from Black Hippy. I was happy to just witness history.
Lee: An heir apparent right for the moment to speak to the specific peculiarities of social and political life in this country.
I’m Trymaine Lee, and this is Into America.
In the late 20-teens and beyond. In the embers of economic fallout, police violence and political upheaval, hip hop responded with both nuance and blunt force. As we conclude our series on the evolution of hip hop, we’re taking a moment to ask where hip hop is now, where it’s headed, and what it’s given us a half a century in.
This is part five of Street Disciples: We Gon’ Be Alright.
Donald Trump: When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
Lee: With all the hope of change and diversity brought by the election of Barack Obama as America’s first black president, the end of the Obama years brought on the opposite for many.
Trump: I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks. You know, I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell you.
Lee: The rise of Donald Trump and his MAGA agenda exposed, amplified and deepened America’s white supremacist afflictions built on political and personal lies, racist tropes, and xenophobia. Donald Trump’s ascent to the White House in 2016 weaponized America’s divisions, but it also leaned on Trump’s long-forged brand as an American hustler.
Trump: And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead.
Archival recording: White supremacists and —
Trump: Well, who would you like me to condemn?
Archival recording: — Proud Boys.
Archival recording: — white supremacists and (inaudible).
Trump: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what.
Lee: Before Trump became a torch carrier for far-right politics, he represented a kind of gluttonous affluence that appealed to a huge swath of young black people just trying to get a piece of the American pie by any means necessary. Trump’s name pops up throughout decades of rap lyrics as an aspirational figure like Jeezy’s 2012 make money anthem simply called “Trump.”
Trump, Jeezy: Kilo in the trunk, I got a kilo in the trunk. Richest nigga in my hood, I’m the Donald Trump.
Lee: But as his presidential run picked up steam and Trump revealed more of himself and his beliefs, some in hip hop came out against him in a way that only hip hop could. Take YG and the late Nipsey Hussle’s blunt, profane assessment in 2016’s “FDT.”
FDT by YG and Nipsey Hussle: Just when I thought it wouldn’t get no sicker, woke up one morning and heard this weird ass motherfucker talkin’ out the side of his neck. Me and all my peoples, we always thought he was straight, influential motherfucker when it came to the business. But now, since we know how you really feel, this how we feel. Fuck Donald Trump. Yeah, Fuck Donald Trump. Yeah, nigga, fuck Donald Trump.
Lee: After winning the election, even as Trump winked and nodded at the white supremacist among his supporters, he openly flirted with a particular segment of the hip hop community, black men. And he did so through proposals ostensibly aimed at boosting black dollars and enacting criminal justice reform. And he gave that plan the most cliche, cynical, hip hop sounding name he could. The Platinum Plan, promising support to black churches, businesses, and lifting policing standards in urban neighborhoods.
In 2020, Ice Cube, of “F of the Police” and “Straight Outta Compton” fame offered his tacit support, tweeting this, “They all lie and they all cheat. But we can’t afford not to negotiate with whoever is in power or our condition in this country will never change. Our justice is bipartisan.” In another tweet, he took his message to video.
Ice Cube: Everybody can be mad at me, pissed off at me. You know, I don’t give a shit. You know, hey, y’all know what it is? I’m trying to get to the truth. I ain’t about to be part of nobody program. Ain’t nobody gonna get me to back down. And if y’all don’t want to hear the truth, then that’s yo, you know, that’s kind of a personal problem.
Lee: Soon, Lil Wayne also offered his support for the Platinum Plan, which ultimately never bore fruit. Also, during his presidency, Trump pardoned Lil Wayne for a felony gun possession conviction, and he even sprung the rapper, Kodak Black, from federal prison early, where he was serving time for gun crimes. But Trump’s most loyal hip hop ally has been Kanye West. Now Ye went full MAGA Red Hat and all.
Kanye West: I guess you know I love you.
Trump: I don’t want to put you in that spot but —
Kanye West: No, I’m standing in that spot. I love this guy right here. Let me give this guy a hug right here. I love this guy right here. Yeah. Come here. Yeah.
Trump: That’s really nice. And that’s from the heart. I didn’t want to put you in that position, but that’s from the heart. Special guy.
Lee: A far cry from that moment after Katrina back in 2005.
Archival recording: So you had said of President Bush that he doesn’t care about black people. And you’ve heard some people say that about this president. How do you respond to that?
Kanye West: I think we need to care about all people. When I went on to NBC, I was very emotional and I was programmed to think from a victimized mentality, a welfare mentality. I think that with Blacks and African-Americans, we really get caught up in the idea of racism over the idea of industry. We say if people don’t have land, they settle for brands. We want polo-sporting Obama again. We want a brand more than we want land because we haven’t known how it feels to actually have our own land and have ownership of our own blocks.
Lee: When the Trump administration ended in 2020, it did so under the pall of a global pandemic. COVID-19 swept through America like a rolling flame, eventually killing black people at twice the rate of white people.
Trump: Today, the World Health Organization officially announced that this is a global pandemic. We have been in frequent contact with our allies. And we are marshaling the full power of the federal government and the private sector to protect the American people.
Archival recording: Tonight, U.S. cases of coronavirus more than doubling with two new cases in Southern California and one in Maricopa County, Arizona, the CDC confirming all five patients in the U.S. had traveled to Wuhan, including a man in his 50s being treated on–
Lee: At the same time, hip hop did what it has always done, giving us light when things are darkest. With quarantine in full effect, super producers Timbaland and Swizz Beatz launched a series of Instagram live streams called “Verzuz” set up like rap battles between our favorites in hip hop, reggae, and R&B. Racking up millions of views and lifting our spirits.
Archival recording: It was good.
Lee: Like when T-Pain faced off against Lil Jon.
Archival recording: Y’all know what it is, it’s “Verzuz” time, baby.
Lee: Their playful energy radiated through our little screens and got us up off the couch with some of their biggest hits of the 2000s.
Archival recording: You better be partying at the crib, ladies and gentlemen. Let’s go.
Archival recording: That’s what the fuck I’m talking about.
Archival recording: I see you Big Boi.
Lee: Or Nelly versus Ludacris, which started with some technical difficulties I know we can all relate to.
Ludacris: This is a 20-year anniversary for both me and you, man. 20 years. Both of our albums, first albums came out in the year 2000, right? Uh-oh, come on now. My brother’s Wi-Fi is bugging. What are we doing? Let’s get Nelly right. Come on, now.
Lee: Even when the world started opening up, they kept the party going. Like when two of New York’s most iconic rap groups, The Lox and Dipset, took the stage at Madison Square Garden, repping their city strong with thousands of fans screaming the lyrics back to them and gave hip hop a homecoming.
New York, Jadakiss: New York, the Real New York. I’m outside. I don’t live in Miami. I don’t live in Colorado. Come to my black city (ph), my niggas. All of you know I’ve been down there. This is Kiss. I’m outside. (Inaudible). I got a hundred guns, a hundred clips, nigga, I’m from New York, what? New York.
Lee: But ultimately, one of the most defining moments for hip hop in the last three years was following the murder of George Floyd. On May 25th, 2020, police in Minneapolis murdered George Floyd, and protesters marched until they shook the world.
Archival recording: Tonight, cries of Black Lives Matter and hands up, don’t shoot, hands up, don’t shoot, echoing from coast to coast. The largest day of demonstrations for George Floyd yet in Washington, crowds stretching from the Lincoln Memorial to Black Lives Matter Plaza in front of the White House. From the East Coast, marchers demanding action in New Jersey.
Archival recording: In New York, thousands of people coming out today. Peaceful gatherings in parks like this marching through the streets for yet another day. Even though many protesters say they’re tired, they’re determined to force change.
Archival recording: And in Philadelphia, where the crowd swelled on the art museum steps, this couple tying the knot, then adding their voices to the chorus. In Chicago, thousands packed the streets. And in the West, Denver Broncos players joined the march to the state capitol.
Archival recording: (Inaudible).
Lee: George Floyd, born and raised in Houston, actually dabbled in rap. Here he is on Sitting on Top of the World, a live freestyle with Texas legend DJ Screw. His deep voice, something we don’t often get a chance to hear, perfectly complements the low and slow, chopped and screwed sound that Houston made famous.
Sittin’ on Top of the World, DJ Screw and George Floyd: Say he watch me lay low, never come in high. I’m a real G, stayin’ high ’til I die. B-I-G, it’s F-L-O-Y-D, watch me raise up in my drop-top seat. Bouncin’ down the boulevard, watch me just roll. Young nigga like to just let the dollars fold. Let ’em all fold —
Lee: And fellow Texans Bun B and Trae Tha Truth paid tribute in a song featuring Big K.R.I.T. and Raheem DeVaughn.
This World by Bun B & Cory Mo featuring Big K.R.I.T., Raheem DeVaughn, and Trae tha Truth: Systemic racism, economic and judicial, plus killer cops attacking us daily, pulling they pistol. So now mane it’s official, we’ve gots to take a stand. Every time they kill a Black woman or a Black man. In this —
Lee: Other rappers from across the country followed suit, including Atlanta’s T.I., who distilled the anger of a people in his song “They Don’t” with Nasty C.
They Don’t by Nasty C and T.I: Consequences you earned to build this nation that you hate me in, the karma’s returned. Well, that’s a stupid question, when will you learn? You never will, word to George Floyd, Emmett Till, and Sean Bell. Guess they’d rather see us all in civil unrest, they they go and make some fuckin’ arrests, fuck is that? Well, after that —
Lee: And Queens own, LL Cool J, who posted a freestyle to his Instagram just days after Floyd was murdered that took the long view of black Americans’ struggle for freedom.
LL Cool J: For 400 years, you had your knees on our necks. A gardener, evil with no seeds of respect. In America’s mirror, all she sees is regret. Instead of letting blood live, they begging for blood let.
Lee: As the fury over Floyd’s murder swallowed the country, Killer Mike, one of the most politically active and politically astute emcees, took center stage to calm tensions in Atlanta. Here he is with an emotional plea to the people.
Killer Mike: And I know it’s crippling and I have nothing positive to say in this moment, because I don’t want to be here. So, I’m dutybound to be here to simply say that it is your duty not to burn your own house down for anger with an enemy. It is your duty to fortify your own house so that you may be a house of refuge in times of organization. And now is the time to plot, plan, strategize, organize, and mobilize.
Joe Biden: I, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr., do solemnly swear to serve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Lee: About 2021, we had a new administration. But some old issues resurfaced in hip hop. And by 2023, hip hop wasn’t just pushing up against the system, it was being ensnared by it in unprecedented ways. Exhibit A, their lyrics.
Take It To Trial by Young Thug, Yak Gotti, and Gunna: That’s your first time, for real (yeah), for slimes, you know I kill, (yeah, yeah). Baby, goodnight, my dear. Trial, I done beat it twice, state, I’m undefeated like Feds came and snatched me, I don’t know, no point in asking, I was on —
Lee: That’s Take It to Trial. A song by Yak Gotti and Young Thug. Young Thug is an Atlanta-based rapper and is at the forefront of Southern Trap music. And that song and those lyrics are among evidence being introduced against Young Thug in court right now as he faces major criminal charges in a RICO case accused of running an organized criminal racketeering operation through his record label, YSL, which they say is a proxy for his gang, Young Slime Life.
Fani Willis: It is our allegation that they operated as a criminal street gang and commenced to do havoc in our community.
Lee: This is Fulton County DA, Fani Willis.
Willis: That havoc includes crimes of violence, crimes of thefts, crimes involving drugs.
Young Thug and the 13 other defendants in the case could face decades in prison if convicted on their most serious charges and as Young Thug’s on trial, so are his lyrics.
Archival recording: Defendant Jeffrey Williams, an associate of YSL, released a song on YouTube titled “Slime Shit,” where the lyrics state, “Hey, this is that slime shit. Hey, YSL shit. Hey, killing 12 shit, fuck, fuck the police. Fuck ’em in a high-speed hunter, rounds in a Tahoe. I’m prepared to take him down. Got banana clips for all these niggas acting monkey. This, that slime shit, this that mob shit. Fuck the judge. YSL, this that mob life and overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.
Lee: Some big names have stepped up to fight back against this use of art in court. A long list of rappers, including 50 Cent, 2Chainz, DJ Khaled, Quavo, and Megan Thee Stallion have all signed a letter, drafted and published by Warner Music Group. And the California rappers helped push for a first of its kind law that next (ph) stronger protections against lyrics being used in court.
Archival recording: On behalf of hip hop from the older generation to the younger generations. This is truly entertainment.
Lee: Bay Area legend, Too Short, gave his support to the bill at a virtual signing ceremony this fall.
Too Short: And I appreciate you recognizing that we could be afforded the same rights as filmmakers and artists from different genres, that hip hop is not being prosecuted just for being hip hop. It’s not us confessing our crimes on record. That’s not what’s going on here. We’re just relating what’s going on in the real world. And a lot of people love to hear what we talk about. So, sign it and let’s get this moving, you know.
Lee: New York State is considering a similar law even as last year, New York City’s Mayor, Eric Adams, warned against the violence perpetuated in a newer genre of hip hop called drill.
Eric Adams: I had no idea what drill rapping was, but I called my son and he sent me some videos. And it is alarming. We are alarmed by the use of social media to really over-proliferate this violence in communities.
Lee: Drill music came out of Chicago in the early 20 tens. It’s similar to Trap, but the subject matter of most of it is catching licks or robberies and war with ops or the opposition. Pop Smoke is from Brooklyn and his breakout drill hit, “The Woo” with its winding sound, helped him land a multimillion-dollar contract.
Dior by Pop Smoke: Said I’m never lackin’, always pistol packin’ with them automatics, we gon’ send him to Heaven. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hey, hey, woo, huh —
Lee: But many of these rappers aren’t just glamorizing violence. They’re naming names, taunting rivals, and spelling out beefs, murders, and shootings in chapter and verse, all delivered with immediacy and specificity. Like on this song Beatbox Bibby Flow by Foolio.
Beatbox Bibby Flow by Foolio: Prosper got shot (Shot), Tay got shot (Ha), Desi got dropped (Damn), Nate got popped (Damn). Leeke got shot.
Lee: The violence on wax and the violence in the streets are intertwined and a growing list of drill rappers have been shot dead in recent years, including Pop Smoke who was only 20 years old.
But even as the new school is grappling with old issues of violence and media scrutiny, hip hop as a whole has found renewed light and love. A musical culture birthed 50 years ago, in a humble Bronx rec room passed around the park jams on fading cassette tapes and barely heard on the radio.
Hip hop is now 50, fully grown, with a reach far beyond its New York City roots. Eminem, a white rapper from Detroit, has sold 166 million singles, more than any artist of any genre ever. And one of the biggest stars in the game is a former child actor from Canada named Aubrey Graham, better known by his stage name Drake, who captured the feeling of being on top on one of his verses on Meek Mill’s song “Going Bad.”
Going Bad by Meek Mill featuring Drake: Back home, smoking legal (legal), I got more slaps than The Beatles (Beatles). Foreign shit runnin’ on diesel, dawg, playing with my name, that shit is lethal, dawg (who you say you was) Don Corleone.
Lee: In 2019, seven of the top 10 songs on the Billboard Hot 100 were by Drake. The previous record was held by The Beatles with five. Hip hop started as a culture for people discarded by the system and along the way forced the structures of power to make room for different voices. And hip hop continues to give people all around the world a chance to put their own flavor on the music.
Like Panjabi MC from from Coventry, England, who layers traditional Punjabi sounds with a drill beat in the song “Jinni Marji.”
Jinni Marji by Panjabi MC: (Foreign language).
Lee: There’s also Jin Dogg and Real-T’s Machikaze, a song from Japan wrapped in Japanese that captures Wu-Tang’s boom bap energy from New York.
Machikaze by Jin Dogg and Real-T: (Foreign language).
Lee: With this expansion of popularity, as this black cultural expression is adopted and adapted by new audiences, all of this growth begs the question, is hip hop still ours?
Archival recording: Since 2023 marks the 50th anniversary of hip hop, here to get our story started, my brother, Black Thought.
Lee: At the 2023 Grammys, a slate of artists celebrated 50 years of hip hop broadcasting loud and proud, answering that big question.
Black Thought: Fifty years ago, a street princess was born to be an icon. The art form took the entire world by storm. How she do it? Her influence? Constantly raising the stakes each generation. Domination by whichever means it takes to go from spark into a flame that became public domain. And she prefers to be referred to by her full government name.
Lee: The Roots, Melle Mel, Scarface, Queen Latifah, Salt-N-Pepa, Busta Rhymes, Lil Baby, and so many more took to the stage and gave us a show and a reminder, we know that no matter how much its shape shifts, hip hop will forever be one of the blackest expressions this country has ever produced. New sounds, new spaces and new ears will never change that. In fact, it validates that.
It will always belong to those who deliver the message from the concrete jungle, who reveal the broken glass everywhere. America’s most wanted, poets who dreamed the kind of dreams and paint the kinds of pictures that show us what it would be like if we ruled the world. No matter what, these disciples of the street have showed us that we going to be all right.
So, when we come back, we close out with the word from the congregation. Stick with us.
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Lee: What is hip hop giving you?
Archival recording: Life. Literal life.
Lee: Where would any of us be without hip hop? That’s the one question I’ve been asking myself and all my guests week after week during our Street Disciple Series.
Archival recording: Hip hop has given me a foundation. It has given me love. It changed my life. It took me off the streets. I think hip hop, to me, is a blessing.
Archival recording: Hip hop has done an amazing level of things for me in terms of faith and creativity and artistry.
Lee: What has hip hop given to you?
Archival recording: You know, allowing us to dream and be ambitious personally, but also to dream about what it is going to mean for our community.
Archival recording: Hip hop has given me an opportunity to spit my verse in the world.
Archival recording: You’ve given so much to hip hop, but I wonder what hip hop is giving you.
Melle Mel: Everything. I mean, you know, the identity, you know. Hey, hey, look, one of the best things in the world for me is just being Melle Mel, just being who I am. Just, you know, having the relevance and the reverence from people, from people that really know what hip hop is. They know what we did. They know how we laid it down.
Lee: For 50 years, hip hop has given us a sense of wonder and discovery.
Archival recording: I think it was Run-D.M.C., “My Adidas.” When I heard that, I was like, I’m in, I’m in. I’m all the way in.
Archival recording: I’m, you know, walking to my piano teacher’s apartment and I had to walk through Douglas Projects. And the first time I heard “Dance to the Drummer’s Beat” by Herman Kelly, it was because somebody on the 11th floor had turned their speakers outward from their window and I heard the song. It was a very communal experience and very organic. You know, you couldn’t avoid the vibes.
Archival recording: Man, my older brother, eight years my senior, one day he came home with these records. I think it was a group called Whistle or something. I remember him putting it on and pointing at the record and he said, that’s hip hop. He was like, I’m going to be the DJ and you’re going to be the emcee.
And I was like, what is that? And he drew, you know, what I mean? He drew a picture of a circle with an afro on it and some headphones, and he was like, that’s a DJ. And he drew a circle with an afro and a little microphone, and he said that’s the rapper. And so, he put that battery in my back and I just wanted to make him proud and I’ve been doing it ever since.
Lee: We’ve been part of a lyrical love story held together by rhythm and poetry.
Archival recording: I love the culture. I love all the elements.
Archival recording: The same feeling that I’ve gotten from hip hop, I wanted to then broadcast to others because if I felt like that, I felt like others would feel like that. So, I’ve been doing that since I was in high school, you know. You know, I would get on the bus with the boombox. I was the dude in the back and the bus driver would be like, yo, turn that off, and I’d be like, nah, we keeping it playing, bro. I’m not turning it off.
You know and everybody used to say, well, Ralph (ph), you were always into the music. You had all of the new stuff because I just wanted to see how people would react to something that I really liked.
Lee: Hip hop has helped us stand strong.
Archival recording: The aliens come back and they need one album to listen to, to understand what hip hop is, what is that for you? And that’s a tough one.
Archival recording: Oh, my God. The song would have to be Public Enemy, “Fight the Power.” It would have to be the song “Fight the Power” because the song took over like a whole new meaning, man. Like, like people would be like, yo, fight the power. And people would be like, fight what power? Fight whatever is holding you back. You know, fight the power that’s telling us, we can’t do this, we can’t do that.
Archival recording: What do you do when the odds are stacked against you? What do you do when they’re all against you? What do you do, you know, do you give up? Do you throw in the towel? And that’s a life lesson. You know that you don’t quit. You don’t back down. You just go back at it.
Archival recording: At any moment, I could face any adversarial situation and absolutely 100% win because it’s in my soul. It’s in my body. It’s a part of me. Like it’s not something that’s taught. It’s something that felt. And to me, you know, I’m grateful for that. That’s what hip hop really gave me, was just that, that spirit that, you know, I will not be conquered.
Lee: It’s been a tool to grow ourselves and to grow a new world around us, an infinite well of knowledge, nurturing the truest, purest parts of ourselves.
Archival recording: Hip hop teaches history, literacy, science, engineering, like mathematics, culture, you know, religion, spirituality, health.
Archival recording: Hip hop, for me, provided space where at least somebody was trying to tell me the truth.
Lee: This was an art form born of economic hunger, then raised on a steady diet of hustle, drive, and ambition. Now, fat with billions.
Archival recording: It gave me everything. Hip hop gave me life. It gave me a career. It took care of my family. I put my kids through college. I can’t ask for nothing else better.
Archival recording: To be able to put an envelope in my mother’s hands and to let her know that I made it legally, it’s huge, without a blueprint.
Archival recording: And I remember sitting in my office one day in my chair and spinning around and just being like, ain’t this some shit? Like, I have a whole job talking about hip hop.
Archival recording: The Walmart up the street from my house has been open for 20-some-odd years. There’s a reason I’ve never spent a day in my life working at that particular store, even though most people in my neighborhood have.
Lee: And as much as it’s given self-worth, careers, the passion and pain of any art form, it’s also given us comedy in absurdity.
Archival recording: Short story. My crew got robbed in Marcy Projects. They went and did a gig there. And when the gig was over, people thanked them, you know, because this was a fly thing to do. Like, yo, that was a nice gig. Thank you very much, man. We appreciate it, man. We like what you did.
Take off your shoes, took the equipment, took all my records. I wasn’t there that night, but they took, they fleeced them of everything. And then in an act of benevolence, because that was the fly thing to do, they took the money that they took from everybody and gave each of the folks money to get on the subway and told them, get lost.
Archival recording: Man, we appreciate you so much. Maybe we won’t get you for all your stuff. Man, that was dope. You know, get home safe, man.
Archival recording: Literally, that’s how they did it.
Archival recording: So when they say Manhattan keeps on making it, Brooklyn keeps on taking it, they meant it.
Archival recording: Yeah. Right. We’re going to rob you, but we’re going to be nice about it. We’re going to let you get home. We’re going to let you live. Here’s a dollar. Have a nice day.
Lee: And it’s given so many of us a foundation for our lives.
Archival recording: Actually, hip hop brought me to my husband, is how it works. You know, he had an article that I disagreed with and we went back and forth. And I argued with him in print in the book. And so, he comes to a conference to meet me, to be like, you know, why are you disagreeing with me? And then basically, we got married, I mean, within like two years. So, actually hip hop really did bring me and my husband of, you know, over 25 years now.
Lee: Look at hip hop, you know, changing lives.
Hip hop has given us a sense of pride and purpose, a reminder of who we really are and where we’re from.
Archival recording: To be able to claim that I was in proximity to this birth of this cultural movement is something that I hold on to very proudly.
Archival recording: You know, I think I would always love the Bronx. I will always love Jamaica. Those things are like really deeply encored in my being. But the sense of pride that I have coming from two places that are so critically responsible for the foundation of this music still gives me a whole lot of like, ugh, on a bad day.
Like I just remember what we came from and where we ended up and that I’m part of that culture really makes me feel sometimes like I can do anything because hip hop is the thing that just wasn’t supposed to be like so many of us were not supposed to be.
Lee: It taught us that each one should teach one. And we built a village.
Archival recording: And that’s how I started helping. And that’s how I got good helping as I stayed alive helping.
Lee: And when it comes to America, it ain’t never been the same since hip hop hit it with that boom bap.
Archival recording: How do you think hip hop has changed America?
Archival recording: Oh, my God. I mean, hip hop is America. It has something that started out reflecting the voices of communities that were marginalized and literally being pushed over the edge that is now driving mainstream brands, corporations, leadership, politics. You know, I think it has really transformed who could be at the center of a conversation.
Archival recording: Imagine America with no hip hop. You know what I’m saying? It’s like hip hop is the conscience. You know, it’s the number one export, you know what I mean, of culture around the globe from America is hip hop. Hip hop has pushed back at the narratives of this system.
Archival recording: I don’t feel like a change is going to come. In my heart of hearts, I feel like that that change is here. You just don’t see it yet. But it’s in the street because I can hear it. I’m in the streets. All I need is that first domino to fall and then I believe that we, as a unit can, accomplish some really cool stuff.
Lee: And it’s not just about the dollars. Hip hop touches your spirit, sometimes makes you want to holler.
Archival recording: Especially when you hear something that you go like, wow, that’s just affected me, you know, like in a good way. And that is priceless. We could be in a club and then all of a sudden everybody goes, oh, you know —
Lee: Yeah.
Archival recording: — like that feeling. You can’t predict that. Like, you can’t just buy that. You know, you don’t know when it’s coming. So, when it comes, you like, oh, you know, that’s, that’s beautiful.
Archival recording: Any emcee knows that they’ll hit a certain vibe if they’re in a safe (ph) or even on stage and you want to keep that there, right? It’s a magical, euphoric type of thing. Ask any emcee about that. Like the world slow down and you’re there. If you’re a dancer, similar type of thing.
Certain point, you lose yourself and you feel like you can manipulate your body any way. I DJ now. There are moments at the party where all of us connect and I’ll end with this story. We all connect and the whole vibration moves. You’ve been to parties like that, you know, it’s like song after song, energy is just there, and it’s the ultimate in community.
Lee: It’s been 50 years, but in so many ways, this is just the beginning.
Archival recording: And you still got people, you know, on a turntable trying to learn a new scratch, you know, evolve the crab scratch, like, you know, you still got people rhyming, trying to figure out like, yo, these two words, no one’s ever rhymed these two words together. Like, let me try. Like, you still got people trying to be inventive, you know, pushing the envelope. And I hope that that never stops. In fact, I don’t think it will.
Archival recording: And so, we’re having this conversation in the context of the 50th anniversary. And so, we’re reflecting on all these decades and how America shaped and all the forces, economic, social forces shaped hip hop and how hip hop shaped America. But in so many ways, for someone like you, you shaped hip hop and hip hop shaped you. And I wonder what hip hop has given you.
Archival recording: It gave me everything. It has given me identity. It has given me purpose. It gave me direction. It gave me hope. It gave me love, you know, it gave me strength. It gave me power. You know, that’s what it was meant to give us all.
Archival recording: And hip hop has given me a sense of belonging. I belong to something. I belong to something that changed the world. You know, I belong to something that came from nothing that’s now something. I belong to something that brought the world together.
Archival recording: We did something 50 years ago that changed the whole dynamics of everything. The way people think, the way they dress, music (ph) that they listen to. The whole nine yards. And we did it.
Even to this day, you give me a mic and you put some people in front of me, something is going to happen. I’m going to shake it, you know, because that’s who I am.
Lee: Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, using the handle @intoamericapod or you can tweet me @trymainelee. That’s Trymaine Lee, my full name. And if you want to write to us, our email is intoamerica@nbcuni.com. That was intoamerica@nbc and the letters U-N-I dot com.
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Into America is produced by Isabel Angell, Allison Bailey, Mike Brown, Aaron Dalton, Max Jacobs, and Janmaris Perez. Original music is by Hannis Brown. Our executive producer is Aisha Turner.
I’m Trymaine Lee. Thanks for joining us. For Street Disciples: Politics, Power and the Rise of Hip Hop.
And as we close out our series, we wanted to take a moment to pour out a little for some of the people who’ve shaped the culture that we’ve lost along the way, including Pac, Biggie, Big L, Dave of De la Soul, XXXTentacion, DMX, Takeoff of the Migos, Coolio, Nipsey Hussle, Biz Markie, Miss Melody, Eazy-E of NWA, Left Eye of TLC, Prodigy of Mobb Deep, Ol’ Dirty Bastard of Wu-Tang Clan, Jam Master Jay of Run-DMC, Freaky Tah of the Lost Boyz, Soulja Slim, Pop Smoke, PnB Rock, Scott La Rock, Gangsta Boo, Guru, Phife Dawg, and so many more. Rest in peace and power.