Summary

Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as U.S. secretary of state, is remembered. Former U.S. Ambassador Bill Richardson discusses a surprising diplomatic breakthrough, as American captive Trevor Reed is set free by Russia. Are right-wing justices getting ready to smash the separation of church and state in the country? Congresswoman Val Demings discusses her race to unseat Marco Rubio and Ron DeSantis` culture war against Disney.

Transcript

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: As always, we appreciate you joining us here at 6:00 p.m. Eastern. I will see you tomorrow at the same time.

THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID starts now.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone.

We begin THE REIDOUT tonight remembering Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as U.S. secretary of state, who passed away last month at the age of 84.

Her funeral was held this morning at the storied Washington National Cathedral, where our nation`s top leaders sat in the front row, President Biden, the Obamas, the Clintons and their daughter, Chelsea, as well as Al Gore. First lady Jill Biden was not in attendance because of her work at the community college where she teaches. And Vice President Harris remains that isolation following her positive COVID test.

But the number of powerful people who gathered today in Washington was a signal of just how important and beloved Secretary Albright was. She not only contributed greatly to our democracy, but she was also an embodiment of the American dream.

Her family fled Prague to escape the Nazis when she was just 2 years old. They returned after the war and then had to flee again when communists overthrew the government. Throughout her diplomatic career, she focused on spreading democracy around the world, especially by expanding NATO, which President Biden emphasized in his eulogy.

But she knew that democracy was fragile. And towards the end of her life, she warned about the return of the global danger of fascism, Writing in her book aptly named “Fascism: A Warning” that: “Some may view the book and its title as alarmist. Good. We should be awake to the assault on democratic values that has gathered strength in many countries abroad and is dividing America at home.”

Her mentee, our third female secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, drove that point home in her eulogy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: During the last phone call two weeks before she died, she talked about the importance of what President Biden is doing to rally the world against Putin`s horrific invasion of Ukraine and the urgent work of defending democracy at home and around the world.

We must heed the wisdom of her life and the cause of her public service, stand up to dictators and demagogues from the battlefields of Ukraine to the halls of our own Capitol, defend democracy at home just as vigorously as we do abroad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: That message could not be more relevant today, with our democracy hanging on by its fingertips.

We have crossed the Rubicon, to the point where issues like racism and anti-Semitism are back in business in the public context in America, as a point of not just social, but also of political contention.

A new Politico/Morning Consult poll reveals that just 25 percent of Republicans think that it`s a major problem if a political candidate is accused of homophobic remarks; 38 percent say the same of racist remarks and 47 percent for anti-Semitism. The numbers are slightly better when it comes to sexual misconduct; 68 percent of Republicans would have a problem with accusations like that, and domestic violence, 67 percent.

By comparison, more than 70 percent of Democrats think all of these issues would be a major problem for a candidate. And while that`s a sad state of affairs, it does go much further, with Republicans trying to use our own democratic institutions to attack democracy itself.

Regarding January 6, there is new reporting from CNN that shows that Pennsylvania Republican Scott Perry pushed to have the nation`s top intelligence official investigate baseless conspiracy theories, while working to replace the acting attorney general with an acolyte willing to do Trump`s bidding.

Five days after the election, Perry wrote to Chief of Staff Mark Meadows that — quote — “DNI needs to ask NSA to immediately seize and begin looking for international comms related to Dominion,” referring to Dominion voting machines.

NBC News has not independently confirmed these texts. And you cannot forget Marjorie Taylor Greene, who texted that the only way to save the republic would be for Trump to declare martial law, spelled incorrectly, of course.

And in their inability to accept that their Trump lost the election, they even endangered members of their own party. I mean, that lynch mob that came to the Capitol to hunt Democratic lawmakers and Speaker Pelosi also infamously chanted, “Hang Mike Pence.”

And we now know that, despite their silence and acquiescence to the first ever attempted American coup, Republican leadership is and has been very much aware of that danger, thanks to new recordings of House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy talking to his whip Steve Scalise about Congressman Matt Gaetz`s rhetoric right after the insurrection.

[19:05:06]

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): This is serious (EXPLETIVE DELETED) to cut this out.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Yes, that`s out of — I mean, it`s potentially illegal, what he`s doing.

MCCARTHY: Well, he`s putting people in jeopardy, and he doesn`t need to be doing this. It`s — we saw what people would do in the Capitol.

And these people came prepared with rope, with everything else.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

REID: Joining me now is Charles Blow, “New York Times” columnist and MSNBC political analyst, and Nancy MacLean, author of “Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right`s Stealth Plan for America.”

Thank you both for being here.

And, Charles, I have to start with you.

In a normal world, the things that we heard Kevin McCarthy, the House Republican leader, say on January 6 would be normative, acceptable and even lauded. I mean, he had these moments of clarity. And he said what any of us would have said: This is unacceptable. These people are going to get someone hurt. The country`s too crazy.

Well, on what he said specifically about Matt Gaetz, we now know that Steve Scalise, who is the House minority whip, met with Gaetz, met with Congressman Gaetz, apologized to him. He said: “I`m sorry if this has caused you problems,” the Louisiana Republican. This is according to Politico.

“I haven`t been able to get all the details of what these accusations were. But I was being told things. And I know members were getting death threats. And I was just very sensitive to that.”

And when asked if he would apologize once he had all the information that Gaetz didn`t commit a criminal act by attacking Liz Cheney in public following the Capitol siege by then-President Donald Trump supporter, Scalise said: “Sure.”

This is the world in which the supposed leaders apologize to Matt Gaetz, that this might cause him problems, to say nothing of the charges — or of the accusations against him about teenage girls. Your thoughts?

CHARLES BLOW, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, this is par for the course at this point.

The moment that McCarthy turned around and went to Mar-a-Lago and kissed the ring and came back and turned his back on all the things he had said in the wake of January 6 insurrection attempt, you knew that this was their playbook, which was to say that they were going to kowtow to Donald Trump, that they still believed that Donald Trump was the leader of the party, and that their path to victory was being attached to Donald Trump.

So, anyone who is on that side, who was always a Trumpster, a Trump supporter, a Trump bolster, those people are really the people who are in power. The McCarthys of the world, Scalises of the world just want to have control of Congress. McCarthy wants desperately to be the speaker of the House. And so he`s going to do whatever it takes.

And if that means to kowtow to people like Gaetz, that`s what they`re going to do.

REID: It`s a strange world.

Let me play very quickly for both of you. This is what Vice President Biden said at Madeleine Albright`s eulogy today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I traveled to Poland and spoke about all that was at stake in our world and for democracy and freedom.

Well, when I mentioned the name of Madeleine Albright, there was a deafening cheer. It was spontaneous. It was real, for her name is still synonymous with America as a force for good in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Nancy, the last — of all the great things — she did lots of great things, Madeleine Albright.

The last thing she did was write a book called — on fascism and warning — “Fascism: A Warning,” I should say, was the name of her book, warning that fascism, not only abroad, but in the United States, was a real and dangerous threat. So she`s now known for that kind of good in the world, as President Biden said.

What our — one of the great political parties in this country, the once great parties, the Republican Party, will now be known for things like this.

This is Scott Perry to Mark Meadows on saying they should install their own person at DOJ who would essentially overrule the election and use the power of law to do it.

Scott Perry saying: “Mark, you should call Jeff. I just got off the phone with him. And he explained to me why the principal deputy won`t work, especially with the FBI. They view it as not having the authority to enforce what needs to be done.”

Mark Meadows responds: “I got it. I think I understand. Let me work on the deputy position.”

This is a congressman of the United States urging the chief of staff to the president of the United States to replace the attorney general so they can steal an election. That now is what the Republican Party is known for.

Does it even matter if their leaders apologize to the members who promoted that?

NANCY MACLEAN, AUTHOR, “”DEMOCRACY IN CHAINS”: I think it`s a little late for apologies. They probably would be insincere, as is pretty clear at this point.

[19:10:00]

But I think it`s really important for all Americans to really take note of where we are. We`re finding out more and more as the January — the House select committee on the January 6 insurrection and attempted coup does its work, that the — this was obviously a coup attempt.

And it`s also — if you take a longer look, which I tend to do as a historian, we see that this goes back. The Tea Party faction of Republicans and the big donors who back them have not accepted outcomes when their party has lost since 2008. When President Obama was elected as the first black president, they pushed the birther conspiracy.

They created the Freedom Caucus. And we now know from the House select committee that the Freedom Caucus were the most complicit members in the events of January 6. And I would say, if people want a sense of how serious this is, in the kinds of terms that Madeleine Albright laid out that you just quoted, we should look to the Conservative Political Action Committee, which is going to be holding its May meeting in Hungary, Viktor Orban`s Hungary.

REID: In Hungary.

MACLEAN: So, as you said, at the top of the hour so rightly, Joy, these people are manipulating the tools of democracy to undermine democracy and install autocracy.

And that`s why they`re going to see Viktor Orban, who is an expert in this and who rigged the rules, so he could just win a very secure reelection with a comfortable margin to work with in their Parliament.

REID: Yes, I mean, on another network here, one of his greatest fans has the most popular prime-time show on cable news.

Charles, it is — the Republican Party has become this sort of inverted pyramid. But the inversion didn`t begin with Donald Trump. It — and I have been saying this probably every night this week — and don`t get sick of it, audience — it started with the Tea Party, at least in the modern era.

And people sort of let the Tea Party go by, and now they — there are people even to the right of them, but they are now the big bulk of the Republican establishment in the House of Representatives, and even in part of the Senate, Rand Paul and others, who were Tea Partiers.

How did we — well, the media in general — miss that and miss the importance of it? I know, at the time, you were writing a lot about it. And we were both, I think, talking a lot about the racial dynamic there that had to do with President Obama, who was the physical alarm that people of color, that young people, that the people who they don`t think are the right people could have — could elect a president.

BLOW: Well, I think, if we step a little bit back, we realize that these people do not believe in democracy.

And if we step back from there, we understand that America has never, on the national level, ever truly been a democracy. But for the 48 years from the Voting Rights Act through the time that the Supreme Court gutted it, you had the closest we have ever gotten to having an actual democracy, where one person equaled one vote, that all those votes had the most power — had the same amount of power.

But they didn`t really because of the way that the electors — or — for the Electoral College are apportioned. No, you never have one vote having the same power from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But what happened with Obama and Tea Party inflamed something that was already existing globally, which was the people from the global South were migrating north. People from the global North, who were mostly white people across the globe, mostly, not all, were having lower fertility rates.

And so people started to panic. At a certain point, you were going to get too many people who looked like them, not enough people who looked like us. We will lose control of culture and country.

That was happening here in America as well. But Obama, as you said, epitomized it. He personified it. And that caused the panic. And at the very same time that Obama came into office, you had the Supreme Court do what they did to the Voting Rights Act in 2013.

And now you had the perfect environment to do what Republicans wanted to do anyway, which is to get rid of the entire idea of democracy, to create — to tailor their own electorate, rather than appealing to an electorate. And that is the outgrowth — what we`re seeing now is the outgrowth of that, which is, they tried to do it then. There was tons of voter suppression during that cycle.

It just wasn`t enough, that they still lost in 2020.

REID: Yes.

BLOW: And so they went back to the drawing board with even more force, and now they`re suppressing votes at an even greater clip.

And so this is what we are seeing right now. And if we don`t connect all of those dots, then we miss the big picture.

REID: Indeed.

And, Nancy, to come out from — speaking of coming at it from a historical perspective, the Confederacy lost the war, and then, through the redemption movement, they won the postwar, and really held on to and have held on to the narratives about history, the narratives about this country, even the narratives about the Civil War itself.

And it`s only now that people are trying to break loose of that sort of Confederate redemption real victory over our society. This feels like the second victory for that same Confederate style of politics.

[19:15:05]

So, since we failed at it the first time around after the Civil War, how do we succeed at it now? How do we succeed in rolling that back and having the multiracial society that we should have?

MACLEAN: Yes, that is such an apt analogy.

And I know, for my friends and colleagues who are historians of the Civil War and Reconstruction, they are absolutely dumbfounded at this public conversation, because at least since the 1960s — and you could go back to the 1930s with W.E.B. Du Bois` towering work — there has been a very different narrative that presented Reconstruction as our first attempt at a multiracial democracy among free people.

And it was a magnificent effort. And, as you say, it was overthrown by violence, by force, by ugly mythology, by historians who would sit at places like Columbia and Harvard and write essentially trash, we can see now, that was based on the notion that African-Americans were inferior and didn`t deserve to hold political power.

REID: Yes.

MACLEAN: Now we see that back.

I think the most important thing that can happen is for our leaders to really sound the alarm much more than they are doing. I think some voices have been powerful. Jamie Raskin, Representative Jamie Raskin of Maryland, has been a great voice for the House select committee, who, by the way, just revealed that Mike Pence said, “I won`t get in that car,” when they tried to take him from the Capitol.

REID: That car, yes.

MACLEAN: So, we — but we need much more of that.

I think there are too many Democratic officials who are acting like this is just another election…

REID: Yes.

MACLEAN: … and we`re just going to talk about inflation vs. populist economics.

REID: That`s right.

MACLEAN: And we`re going to duck the culture wars that the white — right — I should have said that the white right is waging against school boards around the country…

REID: Yes. Yes.

MACLEAN: … as they also try to make it so that normal people who try to do the right thing as election officials won`t do it.

REID: Yes.

MACLEAN: They have criminalized technical errors with legislation…

(CROSSTALK)

REID: Yes.

MACLEAN: … prison sentences and fines because you counted something wrong, as always happens to a minor degree.

REID: Yes.

And we — we — I wish we had more time, but we`re going to go into some of that later in the show.

Nancy MacLean, Charles Blow, thank you both very much, chilling, but important to discuss.

Up next on THE REIDOUT: a surprising diplomatic breakthrough, as American captive Trevor Reed is set free by Russia, although two Americans are still being held there.

Ambassador Bill Richardson, who has been fighting for Reid`s release, joins me next.

Plus: The religious right has made big strides in recent court cases. Now right-wing justices are getting ready to smash the separation of church and state in this country.

And Congresswoman Val Demings joins me on her race to unseat Marco Rubio, Ron DeSantis` absurd culture war against Disney, all that book banning.

What happened to you, Florida?

THE REIDOUT continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:22:28]

REID: Russia and the United States carried out an unexpected prisoner exchange today, trading an American Marine veteran jailed by Moscow for a convicted Russian drug traffickers serving a prison sentence in the U.S.

The American, Trevor Reed, had been detained in Russia since 2019, convicted on charges of assaulting two police officers in Moscow. Here he is pictured with Russia — on Russian state TV at an airport in Moscow. NBC News cannot independently verify when, where and under what circumstances this was shot.

Back in March, Reed`s parents met with President Biden after demonstrating outside the White House to urge the administration to do more to bring their son home amid Russia`s invasion of Ukraine.

Well, late today, Joey and Paula Reed addressed the public on their son`s return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEY REED, FATHER OF TREVOR REED: It`s not going to hit us until we see him.

PAULA REED, MOTHER OF TREVOR REED: I mean, we`re excited. We know he`s on the plane, but I think we`re really going to — it`s going to really hit us when we get to put our arms around him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Reed`s return has renewed concerns over other Americans still detained in Russia, such as WNBA star Brittney Griner and another former Marine, Paul Whelan.

Joining me now is Bill Richardson, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and former governor of New Mexico, and who traveled to Moscow in the hours before the Ukraine war began, in hopes of securing Reed`s release.

Thank you so much for being here, Governor, Ambassador Richardson. I don`t know. You have so many titles. I don`t know which one to choose.

Walk us through, how do you negotiate for the release of an American held in Moscow while Moscow is engaged in an unprovoked war in Ukraine, for which we are taking very strongly the other side?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, first Joy, I give credit to the president and the Biden administration for the final release.

Yes, I did help set it up. I was there in Moscow a day before the invasion. It was a very tense time. I met with Russian officials, pressed for the release of Trevor Reed, mentioned Yaroshenko.

Then, the president and the White House made the decision to proceed with the exchange. And I think it was the right decision.

We have hostages in over 40 countries. This is a Marine who was wrongfully detained. There`s another Marine there. There`s Brittney Griner. We have to consider how important these Americans are all around the world, in North Korea, in Iran and Venezuela, where they`re detained as bargaining chips.

But I commend the president. This was a big triumph for him. He made the decision to proceed with a prisoner exchange. And I commend the Reed family, because they went to the president, and they met with the president and convinced him that this should happen.

[19:25:08]

And there are so many parents all around the — America, Joy, that have prisoners in many countries that deserve that kind of strength from their government. And it happened.

REID: Yes.

Let me play — well, I`m going to just read what President Biden`s statement was today.

He said that Reed`s “safe return is a testament to the priority my administration places on bringing home Americans held hostage and wrongfully detained abroad. We won`t stop until Paul Whelan and others join Trevor in the loving arms of our family and friends.”

Some folks noted that there was Trevor and others. Paul Whelan was named. Brittney Griner was not named in person. Is there an art and a science to who you talk about publicly and who you don`t in these matters and — because there have been stories out there that there`s a concern that putting a lot of emphasis on Brittney Griner by name could actually hurt her situation more?

RICHARDSON: Well, Joy, I am involved in trying to help with both Whelan and Brittney Griner.

But this is an administration decision. And I think it`s been the correct one. Keep it low-key. This is a very high-profile and important person, Brittney Griner. And it`s got to be done delicately. The good news, if there`s any good news here in the American-Russian relationship, which over Ukraine is in shatters, is that both countries, especially Russia, agreed to negotiate on this very, very important humanitarian, but, what should I say, minuscule effort compared to the whole invasion and our policy.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: So, that`s good news for Paul Whelan and Brittney Griner.

It means the Russians maybe are ready to talk on humanitarian, narrow issues. And the administration made it clear. And I`m not a member of the administration. They don`t tell me what to do. I have a private humanitarian effort. And I have had experience, mostly pretty good, at getting hostages out.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: So, this is a good step.

REID: And talk about — I do want to ask you about that designation.

So, there — and you mentioned Konstantin Yaroshenko. This is the Russian. He`s a 53-year-old former Russian pilot who`s serving 20 years into Danbury, Connecticut, federal prison for conspiracy to bring drugs into the U.S., just so people know who Yaroshenko is.

Why are these considered hostages, not prisoners?

RICHARDSON: Well, Trevor Reed is wrongfully detained. And we have given him that designation.

Yaroshenko is somebody the Russians wanted. They wanted him. He is a prize the hostage, they consider.

No, this man was arrested as a pilot on drug charges. And the Justice Department has kept him, I think, 13 years in prison. He also was sick.

REID: Right.

RICHARDSON: I was — I have been working on this for two years. He had physical problems.

So — but it`s a good deal for us. We get an American Marine, young, who was right now in bad health.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: He had a — he had all kinds of physical problems. He`s home. He`s coming home.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: And so the next step is Brittney and Paul Whelan.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: And we can`t forget Whelan. He`s been there as long as Trevor Reed.

REID: Sure. Yes.

RICHARDSON: But I think this is a positive step.

REID: Yes.

RICHARDSON: And I give credit to the president for making this decision.

REID: Yes. Well, we thank you for being here.

And we certainly are very happy for the Reed family, R-E-E-D family, and we`re very happy that they`re going to have their son back home and be able to hug him. And, hopefully, his health will improve.

Ambassador Bill Richardson, thank you, sir.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

REID: And still ahead: big happenings in the Supreme Court, as the justices prepare to rule on some truly momentous issues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:34:00]

REID: Remember Judge Roy Moore, the self-proclaimed Ten Commandments judge chosen to be Alabama`s chief justice?

You might remember him mostly for the pedophilia-related allegations, which he denied, that marred his Trump-endorsed run for the United States Senate. He was defeated by iconic civil rights lawyer Doug Jones.

But, back in 2001, Judge Moore became the hero of the religious right when, under cover of night, he unilaterally had a 5,000-pound granite monument to the Ten Commandments installed in the Rotunda of Alabama`s state judicial building. A year later, a district judge ruled that the statue violated the Establishment Clause, and it was ultimately removed.

The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case. That was then.

Today, after years of Republican political campaigning aiming to restore Christian indoctrination in schools and a well-resourced, disciplined campaign to fill the courts with members of the Christian right, it seems that a newly constructed 6-3 conservative court is ready to give its seal of approval.

[19:35:03]

Yesterday, the court heard arguments involving a Washington state assistant football coach named Joseph Kennedy, a public school employee who repeatedly led his players in prayer at the 50-yard line immediately after games. A number of his players expressed their discomfort, claiming that they felt pressured to pray.

He claimed it was private expression of prayer during business hours. The school informed him that his public prayer violated state law and school guidance. They offered him multiple accommodations, which he declined. He was placed on administrative leave and, during that time, his contract expired.

He claims he was fired and filed suit. All of the lower courts ruled against him. Now, naturally, that turned him into the newest martyr of the religious right. And he took his case to the Supreme Court.

Well, yesterday, this conservative justices signaled that they may indeed side with coach Kennedy.

With me now, Elie Mystal, justice correspondent for “The Nation,” and Robert Jones, CEO and founder of public Religion Research Institute and the author of “White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity.”

Thank you both for being here in.

Elie, I`m going to start with you.

“The New York Times” did a review of court rulings, recent court rulings, and this is — it was published by something called — or “The New York Times” did a story about The Supreme Court Review, which did a study documenting a 35 percent point — percentage point increase in the rate of rulings in favor of religion in orally argued cases, culminating in an 81 percent success rate in the court under Chief Justice Roberts.

This is the most pro — they`re saying it`s the most pro-religion court in — since World War II. It`s really the most pro-Christianity court.

So, when you look at that record, it`s pretty clear that this coach is going to win, right?

ELIE MYSTAL, “THE NATION”: Yes, he`s going to win.

And the question is really how, because people need to understand, this man was not fired for praying. You do not get fired in American culture for praying to a Christian God. You got some — my Muslim friends, call me later, because that doesn`t apply to you.

But if you`re praying to a Christian God, that`s not — nothing`s going to happen to you. This man had his contract unrenewed for being insubordinate and churlish, all right, because, first, yes, he was praying with the kids. Well, that clearly is unconstitutional. I don`t even think the court is going to let him get away on that, they`re going to skate on that, right?

But then he threw a hissy fit and still had to go to the 50-yard line now by himself and pray there. Then he had to go on “Good Morning America” and talk about his hissy fit. Then he had to have his supporters come to the high school football game.

Now, I`m Catholic. My Jesus is spending his Friday nights at a soup kitchen, maybe a methadone clinic. But these Catholics, their Jesus is going there for Friday night lights. All right.

So then his supporters show up at the high school football game, rush the fields when he is praying, putting the students at danger. And that`s why they didn`t renew his contract.

And so what we have to see from the Supreme Court — and I don`t know this yet, even based on the oral arguments — we have to see which insubordinate behavior this current theocratic court is going to allow.

REID: Yes.

MYSTAL: Is it just the going on “Good Morning America” apart? Is it just the praying on — at the 50-yard line? Or is it going to go all the way back to indoctrinating all the students and making them pray with him?

REID: You know, and I`m old enough to remember, Robbie, the prayer in schools debates in the 1980s.

And when I was in high school, there was a lot of action on the religious right bemoaning the fact that there`s no longer Christian prayer in schools. I mean, they weren`t — they didn`t want Muslim prayer in schools. They didn`t want Jewish parents in schools. They wanted specifically Christian prayer to be in schools.

And they blamed in a lot of ways the courts for taking religion out of the schools. Well, here`s their record now. The Christian right has won a lot of cases. There`s a United Pentecostal Church vs. Newsom case that basically said they can go and be in church even during COVID.

There`s the Hobby Lobby case. That`s Masterpiece Cakeshop. They are on a winning streak. So why is this feeling of persecution not going away, when they are winning and winning and winning?

ROBERT JONES, CEO, PUBLIC RELIGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, look, thanks for having me on.

I think that it really goes to this basic claim, this brazen claim that America is essentially meant to be a white Christian nation. And these are very intentional, very intentional acts, right? This is not — he could have gone to the parking lot and prayed.

But he goes under the lights, 50-yard line. And, look, I was a high school athlete, right? I remember the importance of getting the attention of a coach, right?

REID: Yes.

JONES: To say this is not pressure, whatever — I mean, you show up early. You do the extra laps.

And you — especially if you`re fighting for your place on that team, you do whatever it takes to get noticed. And if you`re on that team, and you`re not Christian, and you want to play, your — it`s very clear that you`re going to feel this kind of pray to play kind of pressure on you to get out there and kind of be noticed and be seen as one of the — team player, one of the — and I think that`s really what part of this is about.

It`s a state actor. It`s a public school. And what`s notable, I think, is, he said his inspiration was actually a movie that he watched where a coach did this. But, in that movie — I actually looked it up — it was a private Christian academy…

[19:40:06]

REID: Right.

JONES: … that was the setting, right?

And now he`s taking this to a public school. But I think the big point is, again, this sense that — this claim, it`s literally marking territory. That`s why it`s important that it was on the 50-yard line at a public school. It`s marking territory, and this declaration this is a white Christian country.

And just one more point. It`s notable that white evangelicals — very few Americans today feel like their religious liberties are being threatened. And, in fact, the only religious group, the only religious group that believes their religious liberty is being threatened are white evangelicals, and 70 percent of them believe that their religious liberties are being threatened.

No other religious groups comes within 30 percentage points of them, none of them.

REID: Yes.

JONES: And the last thing to say, I guess, is that it`s also notable that the only other clergy that actually stepped up and made public statements in the Bremerton area were actually on the side of the school district in this case, not supporting this prayer in school, because they saw it as a threat to religious liberty, which most religious groups, other than white evangelicals, today actually still support.

REID: Yes.

I mean, and what happens then, Elie? because this isn`t a pro-religion court. It`s a pro just white Christian court. What happens when they strip away the power of the Establishment Clause?

MYSTAL: Well, what they`re trying to do with this, right, is that they want their religious liberty to be able to impose their religion on everybody else.

And so part of this larger culture war battle is that they want the religious freedom to be bigoted against LGBTQ communities, to be bigoted against trans people, and to generally kind of foist their religion you.

And it`s interesting to me, because the very same people who are making this argument that we have to accept their religion in schools are the very same people who will say that we can`t force public schools to teach the accurate history of slavery.

REID: Right, because that is offensive to them.

MYSTAL: It`s coming out of the same sides of their, right?

REID: Yes. Yes. Yes.

MYSTAL: So, you — so, on the one hand — so, that`s a huge, like, hypocrisy in terms of what they`re doing.

REID: Yes. Yes.

We`re going to have to have you guys back. You guys are a great duo. We will have you guys back to talk more about this.

Elie Mystal, Robert Jones, thank you both very much.

Up next: The not-so-free state of Florida becomes ground zero for conservative efforts — speaking of — to ban books from schools and public libraries.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:06]

REID: Florida continues to be ground zero in the war on education.

Dateline: Walton County. Last week, its school district announced that it had pulled 24 books off of school shelves. The titles were from an e-mailed list of 58 sent by a group called the Florida Citizens Alliance.

The far right 501(c)(3) lists respecting ideals of liberty as one of its core values, but their idea of liberty is — well, it`s censorship. They`re pushing what they call a porn report, that list of 58 books that the co- founder of the Florida Citizens Alliance said were distributed to every school system in Florida.

Well, Walton County had just 24 of them, which they pulled for review. And, today, the group proudly touted Walton County`s actions on Twitter. Among the titles pulled are classics like Toni Morrison`s “The Bluest Eye” and “Beloved,” Judy Blume`s “Forever,” also Angie Thomas` “The Hate U Give,” which deals with police brutality, and the popular novel “13 Reasons Why.”

One book on the list, “Fifty Shades of Grey,” would never in a million years appear in a school library. And then there`s the most ludicrous of the books targeted, but not yet removed.

As attorney Daniel Uhlfelder noted, this image is enough to get a book targeted. It`s an image from “Everywhere Babies,” a children`s book about the newborns on the Florida — newborns — that is on the Florida Citizens Alliance list, which was flagged for depicting same-sex couples and in one case a same-sex interracial couple.

Uhlfelder, who`s running for Florida attorney general, told “USA Today” that the group wants to ban the book because it conflicts with Section 27 of the Florida Constitution, which says marriage is between a man and a woman.

Equally disturbing is the group`s so-called strategic partners. Among the groups listed on its Web site, the Florida Oath Keepers, the Oath Keepers, and at least seven different Tea Party groups.

So, naturally, the Florida Citizens Alliance found a partner in Tea Partier turned MAGA warrior Ron DeSantis, so much so that he appointed its founders to its — his Education Transition Committee back in 2018, which explains why the Florida Citizens Alliance backed his Stop WOKE law, banning anything that makes white students uncomfortable in conversations around race, and his don`t say gay law, just a handful of the fronts in the DeSantis culture war that`s turned even the Magic Kingdom into a battleground.

And Congresswoman Val Demings joins me to discuss next.

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[19:54:03]

REID: Ron DeSantis tries to position himself as a competent MAGA warrior, but his battle with Disney over its opposition to his don`t say gala appears to be rather incompetent.

After stripping Disney of its self-governing authority last week, “The Miami Herald” reports that legislators failed to notice an obscure provision in state law that says the state could not do what legislators were doing unless the district`s bond debt was paid off.

Oops. Well, Disney, they did notice, and quietly informed investors that it was confident that the move wouldn`t hold up in court because it violated a pledge that Florida made to Disney when it established the Reedy Creek District 55 years ago.

DeSantis is also bullying Orange County with his new congressional redistricting map. Last week, he signed the map that erases two districts that sent black representatives to Congress, the Fifth District represented by Congresswoman Al Lawson, and the 10th District, which includes Orlando, currently represented by Congresswoman Val Dennings — Val Demings.

My brain isn`t working tonight.

Congresswoman Val Demings, who`s running for U.S. Senate, joins me now.

[19:55:01]

Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here.

I think that banning baby book has, like, fried my brain.

Thank you so much for being here.

Let`s talk first about — because what did go under the radar, with all of the talk about Disney and all the talk about the other things, the STOP Woke and all that, is this robbing of black power from the same district where Disney is, your district, which DeSantis eliminated, and Al Lawson`s district.

Your thoughts?

REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Joy, it`s great to be back with you.

And I`m not really sure what that`s about, because what we do know is that the voters should choose their representatives. And the representatives do not choose their voters.

And when I look at the proposed maps coming out of Tallahassee, that`s exactly what is taking place. And then, as you have indicated, two districts, my district and the district that is represented in North Florida by Representative Al Lawson.

But, of course, people are not silent on this. Everybody deserves good representation. I think that the voters in District 10 and District Five feel they have a good representation. And so they will be fighting, and others will be fighting on their behalf.

I guess, when you cannot win on your own merit, on your own hard work, on your own record, you draw districts that are clearly gerrymandered.

REID: And it feels a little personal. I mean, your husband is the mayor of the county that — where Disney is.

He`s attacking Disney, essentially sticking that county, Orange County, with a billion dollars, a debt — it`s being called a debt bomb of a billion dollars if that special district is revoked.

Here`s what the Orange County tax collector, Scott Randolph, tweeted: “If Reedy Creek goes away, the $105 million that collects to operate services goes away. That doesn`t just transfer to Orange County because it`s independent taxing district. However, Orange County then inherits all the debt and all the obligations with no extra funds.”

Is Ron DeSantis trying to eliminate your political power and also bankrupt Orange County and Osceola County? Does that feel personal?

DEMINGS: Well, what I do know is, Mayor Jerry Demings is going to continue to look out for what is in the best interests of Orange County residents. That`s why they elected him.

But look, Joy, Disney is in my district. I represent Disney. And Disney has been a great community partner for well over 50 years. They employ over 80,000 people. Millions of people come from every part of the globe to experience what we have here.

And, clearly, this decision to strip away Disney`s independent status was not clearly thought out. I don`t know if it was made in the heat of the moment. But it does come with a cost.

Look, Reedy Creek provides fire service; 100 percent of police service is paid for, other emergency services. That bill has to go somewhere. And you have already mentioned the $1.1 billion bond debt that Disney has. It has to go somewhere.

And to even contemplate giving that or passing that burden on to Orange County residents just makes absolutely no sense.

REID: Yes.

DEMINGS: But, look, the legislature passed it. The governor signed it.

The person I`m running against, Senator Rubio, certainly hasn`t opened his mouth. Or what he said was, basically, what`s — what`s the matter with this? It`s a good idea.

REID: And — yes.

DEMINGS: And so he made a statement, why do we treat Disney differently?

Well, what about the residents of Orange County?

REID: Right.

DEMINGS: We`re supposed to be taking care of them.

REID: And also — well, exactly, and the rest — and the whole state of Florida, because that billion-dollar bond there, that`s going to go somewhere, not just to Orange County. It`s going to go all over the state.

You mentioned Marco Rubio. You`re running against him. And voters are going to have to try to get to the polls. But now they`re going to have to get through Ron DeSantis` secret police. There`s no other governor that — he has a private police force he`s created, as the nation`s only elected — election police unit, which I presume is going to have a lot of focus on people who look like you and me.

What is that going to do to your ability — your voters, voters who want to vote for you vs. Rubio ability to actually exercise their right to vote?

DEMINGS: You know, Joy, someone once said, you can make voting more difficult, but you can`t make it impossible.

And, look, the bottom line is, in the 2020 election cycle, I believe the governor said that we had the most secure voting process, that, actually, it was a model for the nation to follow.

REID: Yes.

DEMINGS: Well, if that be the case — and, quite frankly, I agree with that. And the election czar agreed with that. Supervisor of elections agreed with that.

REID: Yes.

DEMINGS: Add if that be the case, why do we need to implement this secret force? To do what exactly at the polls?

REID: Voter intimidation, I`m guessing.

DEMINGS: I don`t know about other voters.

REID: Yes.

DEMINGS: But I know that Florida voters are determined to turn out and vote.

REID: Yes. Yes.

DEMINGS: We`re going to give them a good reason to turn out.

They can turn out and vote…

REID: OK.

DEMINGS: … for me for the United States Senate.

REID: All right, well, I am all up in Chris Hayes` time, so I`m going to thank you, Congresswoman Val Demings, who is running for the United States Senate. Thank you.

That is tonight`s REIDOUT.

“ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES” starts right now.